Trolls everywhere and a lot of other things!

People: attacking Spanos personally in private does not do the situation much good...he is really upset.

He does NOT have any responsability for his fans actions, and he certainly does NOT benefit from them. If anything, it makes him look bad.

Stop blaming him. He is every bit as nice a person as Philippe is.

Caroline, I don't think we're blaming him but he can do something to help and for some people (I am among them) he should do it. That's all. I don't have anything against Spanos but if I were him I would have been involved much sooner. His responsability is for omission, specially when this "S" has been "working" for the cause for the last three years in a daily basis!!

I don't think he was even aware of it before this whole mess started...he doesn't "do" YouTube. But I know he is already taking action as we speak.

I am sure something good will be the outcome of it, eventually. Let's be patient, see what happens, and refrain from any harsh judgement.

carolineleiden wrote:

People: attacking Spanos personally in private does not do the situation much good...he is really upset.

He does NOT have any responsability for his fans actions, and he certainly does NOT benefit from them. If anything, it makes him look bad.

Stop blaming him. He is every bit as nice a person as Philippe is.

I agree. (Just for record's sake. )
And if he really tries to do something about "this mess", then thumbs up for him!

I agree wholeheartedly with Pilarddcc: Spanos has been too oblivious to what is going on, since 2010 or before?? He could have been only positive influence to "S" to stop abusing Philippe, his fan, neutral admirer and Youtube community. Damage has been done leaving only one beneficiary. What I feel and suspect is my own feelings. How I judge one singer's quality amongst many is based on my own measurement and also personal. Just because the singer doesn't make a mistake it doesn't make that singer a good singer. Quality come through from every direction that's how we form our own opinion since we are not possible to go to all the concerts and have personal contacts with that artist. I have my own criteria for judging one's quality. "Heart & soul" which touches my heart and soul. I treasure in people consistency and loyalty in one's conduct. I wonder who said to ignore "S" and in next breath screamed for a war and then peace?? By the way artist is
responsible directly or indirectly to his/her fans conducts. We are a mirror to Philippe and Philippe is for us. He is highly respected and loved by his colleague and we should not ever give him embarrassment with our conduct at the concert or Youtube site or anywhere.

Youtube has been nothing but informative eye opening place for me until it was contaminated by "S" back 2010. I think many of us first came across Philippe on Youtube. I feel we all owe to Youtube to clear it's notorious bad image.

Calrolineleiden: I left my opinion on Spanos' website-contact page few days ago and I don't attack him in private where he cannot defend himself. I wrote him in civilized manner what is going on for 2-1/2 years and this greatly concerning him and his integrityand how I felt. I have not heard from him. Anna Netrebko and Cecilia Bartoli replied almost immediately that's why they stay where they are.

If I don't see all the "S" 's abusive insults against Philippe deleted within three days I don't trust Spanos nor whoever concerning this matter. "S" should know exactly which video she posted most abusive comments one can write to another human being. Spanos should read every one of them before "S" deletes them and think about it deeply. As busy as Philippe has been I heard he was aware of the "S" perhaps for 2years and felt very sad about it and worried that he offended this "S" sometime, somewhere for "S" to hate him so much. That's how insightful Philippe is. He doesn't ignore nor blame "S" instead he tried to make sure he doesn't offend anyone. He is not just a nice person. He is very extraordinary highest quality person and artist. We can be all proud to have gotten to know him in our lifetime.

I agree with SkNinHawaii and Pilarddcc.
If Spanos no sign of life is that he must agree with what is happening, do not think it was the initiator of the problem, or that "serenaluce" (chose this name because it was the opposite of itself?) is itself but if after Carolinleiden and SKNinHawaii private messages have sent him not react, your responsibility is clear.
I feel horrible, but let's wait a few days.

I only got PM's from his webmaster, and I was told by him Nikos wanted to speak to me personally now and if he could have my email. So I haven't spoken to him myself yet.

Whatever Spanos' fans do, he is not responsible. I stick by that general principle. It is probably the wisest thing for any artist NEVER to interfere with whatever it is the fans might be doing, because that could only make matters worse. This already got totally out of control because of one post of mine on this forum!

His webmaster says he is upset about all this, and him asking my email is maybe an attempt at mediation. I'll see what happens.

Personally, I do not blame him. I do not think he benefits from all this, and my guess is he never even imagined it was this bad. Because in private Serenaluce really is just as normal as everybody else. It is just Philippe that turns her from Dr. Jekyll into Mrs. Hyde....

And remember that Nikos is just as little a villain as Philippe is a saint. They're both just men.

Just for the record, I haven´t contacted Spanos and don´t intend to - I guess with the messages he received now he has enough on his plate. But I will be glad if he acts and with that shows his good intentions and character.

Well, in my personal opinion someone who has such a monomania for years can hardly be called "normal". And I hope everyone realizes that what she is fixated on is really 1. Spanos´ mediocre success, and 2. PhJ´s overwhelming success - not really PhJ personally. If Cencic, Mena or Dumaux was the internationally most successful CT of our time, that one would have become her target instead of PhJ. The one undoubtedly absolutely innocent person in this is PhJ, and he is not at all responsible for having become her victim.

Astarto: Thank you for pointing out the fact that "S" 's fixation so clearly once and all . Her fixation is not only based on personal level of "jealousy'" as such, her clear intention and purpose are to gain, attention on this obscure Greek countertenor she is so fixed. She used all the shocking tactics and used Philippe's most viewed video sites effectively. In her process (decent human being will never think of for a moment to do such) and hurt innocent Philippe, his fans and viewers alike, contaminating Youtube community.

Her action escalated as Philippe's rise and fame became locked internationally. He is
the most loved, respected and successful countertenor of our time and his contribution is enormous. Because of that Philippe became the target of her ill-fate intention. It is so clear. Thank you again, Astarto.

SKinHawaii: Oh, thank you, just my five cents!

Pilarddcc, I agree completely. And did Spanos not know anything or just not how bad it was? That seems a bit unclear to me, while it would be very important.
In any case, obviously that serenaluce is smitten with Spanos and obsessed with him, so his opinion of her must be of crucial importance for her. So Spanos is the one person who can influence her and make her stop that craziness. If he tells her he does not want that mobbing of PhJ and to stop, she will, I am certain. So he is responsible, at least from now on that he knows.

Astarto: You totally got it! Serenealuce can't be a normal person because of her behaviour!! I don't believe iit, she is acting as a sociopath concerning PJ! Let's see what happens next!

I have made a proposition to Spanos'webmaster. A win win win situation for all parties concerned. Serenaluce and/or affiliates are no longer allowed to say anything nasty or insulting in any of philippes video's. But:

1) Serenaluce gets to keep the media exposure on Spanos as a derivative of Jaroussky video's by posting a neutral comment and a link to a video of him in the comment section of a Jaroussky video. That is common practice on YT, I do not have any problem with it. Something like: "Ow, that's nice. But have you seen this one yet?" Plus a link. That is all she is allowed to say in a Philippe video. Furthermore, she shuts the f. up.

2) Then we do not have to read any more insults, rants and false accusations, so we will have no more aggravation but will be able to enjoy Philippe in peace and quiet.

3) Serenaluce et al can still go crazy in the Spanos video's, if they really have to vent their emotions. Spanos video's are his part of YT, and Jaroussky fans probably will never know about it anyway and more importantly: Philippe will no longer have to read them.. But he won't like it either, so there they will have to restrain themselves too.

I think it is a very fair and reasonable compromise.

All Spanos has to do is ask her nicely.



EDIT: AND HE WILL!

So, I wonder if there have been any new comments by serenaluce and her alter egos? Where has she been active last, does anyone know? As much as I like PhJ, I have not so much envie to watch all his videos in order to find out.

I wonder how long it will take from Spanos´ writing to serenaluce to stop, till the result. She is not stupid, so the change should be fast, right? Otherwise she would lose his respect knowingly, and that must be the last thing she would want.

Oops, carolineleiden, you posted in parallel, sorry.

Does this mean that Spanos' website will write a disclaimer along the lines of "This does not reflect the opinion of Nicholas Spanos and here's a link to his video/website" on the offending videos? On the face of it, it looks like a nice bit of free publicity but maybe there is something I don't understand ...

She can rant and rave on the Spanos videos as much as she likes; however, that won't give her nearly enough exposure to satisfy her ego. I just found this charming little gem on one of Bejun Mehta's videos - grammar, emphasis and punctuation are crudefurie's:

"HORROR!!!!!! This guy has no idea what opera and singing is about! He's never known what BEAUTY is! His place is only in the cage at the ZOO! It's an insult to COUNTERTENOR SINGING and ART at all! Shame on him!" It goes on, but you get the drift ...

I don't see why Bejun Mehta (and fans) should have to put up with this any more than Philippe does. This woman clearly needs an outlet for her frustration and aggression and if it's not Philippe, it will be someone else. I'm sorry, there's no way that she could ever be described as "normal".

A.

Oh dear Artemis, you're as bad as I am!! I thought exactly the same about free publicity!!

I agree she can in anyway be considered a normal person...

Pilar,

Cynique, moi??!! Heaven forfend!

Cencic was great btw and thanks for your good wishes. His Nerone was, as I expected, very different from Philippe's. I think the production with Maxie will be available on ARTE and MEZZO at some stage so people can see for themselves. I decided that Nerone is a "killer" rôle for countertenors and I hope that neither Philou nor Maxie sing it too often - it's a good way to ruin your voice. I'd be interested to know Vivaldi's (a countertenor who posts here from time to time) opinion ...

A.

Sorry, Carolineleiden, I do not quite understand.
All videos of Felipe will have a link to a video of Spanos?
Is not this an award for Spanos?
All posts from the trolls disappear from the videos of Philip?.
Does it depend on what serenaluce want?
Forgive me, but my English is so bad ...

I quite understood the same, Rosamunda! I hope it's not like that, great move for Spanos, getting more free pubblicity!


Artemis: I'll wait till I see Cencic rendition, but I am already very deep in love with our Nerone-Philippe!

Carolineleiden,

"Furthermore, she shuts the f. up" - well, I can certainly see that this prospect might have a lot of charm!

A.

I mean that, if she is going to post a comment on a Jaroussky video, then let it be a neutral one, and if need be, accompanied by a link to a Spanos video or something. Or she could say: "Oh, but I like Spanos better."(Which is, translated, basically just what she is saying, right?) Fine, fine, be my guest.

Anything is better than one of these abusive rants in CAPSLOCK again....I just want these bloody irritating ongoing attacks to stop in the Jaroussky video's, that is all, and if that is what it takes, then so be it. Free publicity for Spanos as a result. Maybe not intended, just a nice side effect. Who knows? Great. Enjoy it. It's all yours. Knock yourself out.

Because the same thing is happening now too, only with a lot of scolding, accusations and name calling, and absolutely nobody reading it is enjoying that.

YT doesn't allow links in the comments, as far as I know. Will S. be contented with only writing "I like Spanos more" ?

There is a Spanish "useful expression" I like: "matar a sonrisas" something like "killing by smiling". Our admiration for PJ is bigger than Serenaluce's hate, so let's share our love and care to PJ in his videos, I'm sure it will be more convincing than anything else! BTW I am doing it since I discovered her untasteful comments.

I've seen your comments and found out your reason, dear Pilar! This is indeed the best way!

Cara SJuli! I mean every piece of word I wrote in PJ's videos but I wouldn't have written so many times if "S" behaved!

Everyone: This is the latest abuse of "S" to another artist she picked Bejun Metah
under the excuse "freedom of exchanging opinion. YT is free domain to do so etc."
She changed tactics because we are aware of what her intentions are. Poor Metah,
the next victim. Feel sorry for him. I hope he has nice fans who care for him.

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But her latest abuse against Philippe is on Stabat Marter with Veronica Gens. 1 week old. So she has not stopped totally. And meantime, I just keep thumbs up on positive comments and push her abusive comments back to oblivion. No one is going to put thumbs up on negative, abusive comments on any artist's video. Only who has destructive/wicked mentality and intentions do such a thing. We should not be provoked. Just ignore and Spam.

Caroline: A horrible, insulting message of "S" on Bejun Metah's video has been flagged, deleted. I read it before deleted. How can we do that? Does YT technology automatically do that when the certain comments receive many thumbs down or flagged? Please let me know because I don't understand YT' system. If it is so all those terrible uncalled for insults against Philippe should have been flagged, deleted long time ago. Why are they still there on Philppe's video??

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SKNinHawaii,

I think after enough thumb downs the comments automatically disappear. But the uploader of a video can decide that he/she doesn't allow people to vote on comments -- so we can't give thumb downs there.

SJuli: Thank you for your information. Well, then I should put thumbs up for all the positive comments so that they come up in front as main comments which most viewers see it anyway. Those innocent, neutral viewers should not be subjected to
those hatred comments and just enjoy Philippe's video. They can decide they like Phillipe or not by themselves. Don't need to read ugly comments full of LOL and OMG
by "S" trying to brainwash others with intention to promote her favolite CT.

I've slept on this and decided that anything that shuts the silly moo up can't be bad - so thanks for your efforts, Caroline. Let's hope it works (and lasts!) ... I wonder how "crudefurie" will feel about the curtailment of her precious "freedom of expression"; the heart bleeds - NOT!

It's a much better solution than "countertenor wars" which was never an option as far as I'm concerned. Anyone tempted to reply to any of "crudefurie's" posts should bear in mind this quotation from somone the lady herself would no doubt describe as "GREAT George Bernard Shaw" - "I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it".

A.

I just got mail from Mr. Spanos. He's in a bit of a shock from all this. Never knew this had been going on. Never reads the YouTube comments. (No time, work work work.) He will talk to her, for Philippes sake, because he does not want Philippe to feel bad. He's been there himself, and he doesn't want it for Philippe either. He has great respect for Philippe and certainly feels no hatred, disgust or jealousy towards him.

He will speak to her. But that is all he can do. He can ask, nothing more. If she says: "Up yours, I do what I want", he is powerless.

But this is a taking on of responsability that I admire greatly. It takes a big man to do so, to not just walk away and say: "what's this to do with me?". Thank you mr. Spanos! To all catholics here: let's burn a candle for him next Sunday. (we need a new candle smiley here!)

So everybody: lay off! Do nothing! Say nothing. End this war. It is very unbecoming.

Thank you for your efforts, Carolineleiden.
You were very persistent and you have much much involved.
Thanks to Spanos.
Timeo Trolls et dona ferentes…

Thxs Caroline,
so the solidarity amongst the ct's exists in real life.

Sas efcharisto poly, kyrie Spanos!

(Courtesy of Google Translate, so the chances of this being a crap translation are pretty high) ...

A.

Artemis,

It is a good translation, but you would write it like this:

Σας ευχαριστώ πολύ Kύριε Σπανό!

Never never never I can imagine that „S“ would write a neutral comment to Philippes video (or to any others she doesn’t like)!!! She is insulting and accosting in an aggressive and rude manner not only the artists but also everybody who dares to express a different opinion or taste than hers.
Anyhow – answering war with war or fire with fire, like Caroline suggested a few days ago, could never be an option: no way we should dumb down to “S” level. So the way of contacting Spanos and asking him to interfere and try to influence crudefurie might be a good one – if she loves him so much she should care about his opinion! May be he can make her cogitate...

So, this person will get what she want - the close contact to her favorite.
A long wrong way......

Carolineleiden,
well done! If that works out fine, I'll decorate you with my personal Easter rabbit order in dark chocolate. It's great you engaged so much in that.

Spanos should have reacted a lot earlier. On the one hand YT nowadays is a well received medium to make someone popular world wide. Phenomenons like S are the other side of the medal, I I feel there is a kind of responsibility, he could have contacted YT himself for instance.

Duffy,

I think You Tube has some responsibility in this too. I've always thought that You Tube should have "moderators" - although I can see that this would not be easy with something so huge. However, it's not right that people are allowed to post just any old crap that comes into their heads regardless of the consequences to others. There is a complaints procedure but it is convoluted and most people don't bother with it. Respectable and popular opera blogs with comments facilities like "Intermezzo" are moderated.

Caroline,

Thank you for your efforts; who knows - some good may come out of this. Maybe "crudefurie" will even realise that "freedom of expression" is a right but one that comes with responsibilities - not the least of which is knowing when NOT to use (or abuse) it.

JaRoWi,

"the close contact to her favourite" -

"Be afraid, Nikos, be very afraid"!!

A.

Artemis: Yes, that is why I think Nikos is a brave man for doing this for Philippes sake. He has been stalked before himslef, and personally threatened and insulted too in the past. Fans are very dangerous people.

Duffy: He reacted, and took on responsability when he did, that is what counts. I believe him if he says he did not know. Not everybody "does" YouTube. For years, I didn't either....I only made an account last August I believe!

But now that something good has come out of this, the great countertenor war of 2012 can officially stop. Thank heavens.

Ow, in order to differentiate my judgment of his singing, I looked at a video of "the other" one a few minutes ago, that famous "Je te veux", and look what is there in the comments section!

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Now, these are excellent news! Goodness has prevailed!

Caroline,
this is a miracle. I'll have to go and get two rabbits now...

WOW!!!!!
I would have never expected this!!!!
But for me it sounds as if someone else instructed her (maybe Spanos?) and that she just agreed to publish it - anyhow, what a great succcess!

Without words!

Takes a big person to publically acknowledge a wrong. Good for her.

Remember the Lords Prayer?

Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who tresspass against us.

As far as I am concerned, the matter is closed. She probably never realized how much she hurt Philippe with her comments. But now she does, and she apologized, and she has made amends. Good.

I would like to ask her forgiveness too. I started this whole fight. I could have just let it go. Now it is like she is the only one to blame, but it always takes two to tango...I fought hard an d bitter just the same way.

No more hard feelings. Please. Let us all just enjoy whoever it is we enjoy the most. Let's just be human beings. No more war.

Caroline! This is incredible!
Lady of Honour of the Order of Diplomatic YT!
CHAPEAU!!

carolineleiden wrote:

Takes a big person to publically acknowledge a wrong. Good for her.

Remember the Lords Prayer?

Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who tresspass against us.

As far as I am concerned, the matter is closed. She probably never realized how much she hurt Philippe with her comments. But now she does, and she apologized, and she has made amends. Good.

I would like to ask her forgiveness too. I started this whole fight. I could have just let it go. Now it is like she is the only one to blame, but it always takes two to tango...I fought hard an d bitter just the same way.

No more hard feelings. Please. Let us all just enjoy whoever it is we enjoy the most. Let's just be human beings. No more war.

Thanks carolineleiden, it will be a pleasure to enjoy of PJ videos knowing that she will not do that again!! You deserve all the Easter eggs!!!

Yay! Result! I just checked the "Je te veux" video and Arpeggio1358 has apologised too! At this rate, the hair shirt manufacturers will have to start working overtime!! Joking aside, I am delighted that this whole sorry business is now over - it should never have happened. Love of music should unite people, not have them reaching for each other's throats.

A.

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We can't see this video in Germany.....